Election 2008!

[Huggles]

I understand all of your reasons, Covet, and I don't disagree with most of them. The only one I do disagree with is that the bond will never be the same. My family is completely different than yours. I couldn't tell you anything about my dad's parents because they died when he was a kid. He has 8 or 9 siblings, I honestly don't know, and I couldn't say for sure how many of them share the same mother and father. The same goes for my mom. Her siblings were all raised by my materal grandparents, but there's at least 3 different father's in there somewhere. All of my sister's and my brother's have had children as teenagers, most of them don't share the same father or mother, some are being raised by their grandparents or aunts or uncles, or even just friends of the family. My sister's sister, who is of zero blood relation to me, considers my father her dad and me her sister. There are kid's who are "adopted" without any sort of legal adoptions. Just kids of friends or acquaintances or distant relatives who didn't want them and left them at someone's house and never came back. My parent's were never married, and I think the people their age or younger( late 50's) who are married are few and far between.

Being black in America also means that there are going to be kids that pop out that look nothing like their parents or immediate family. My materal grandmother could pass for white along with one of her son's(my uncle), and you wouldn't know it by looking at my full brother. I know she's biracial, but I couldn't tell you if she's half white or half Native American as the older generation would claim Native before white. There's a 50/50 chance my uncles father was either biracial or Jewish. My best friend Elyn, who is half black and half white, had children with her white husband who all have blond hair and blue eyes and look nothing like her.

So my own personal experience and thinking is, that how close you are related biologically isn't always proportional to how close you are emotionally and your kids resembling you is irrelevant and even unlikely. Obviously, if you don't think you'll feel the same towards an adopted child, then it's not in anyone's best interest for you to adopt. There are kids with strings attached, without a doubt, but there are still plenty without who will remain in the system until they're booted out at 18. In America, you can have open fully disclosed adoptions, where the child and you know who the parents are and can even contact them right from the start. There's no guarantee a biological child won't get diseases family donation won't cure, that they won't develop health problems later in life, or that they will love or even like you as they grow older. That for me is pretty scary and very real considering the relationship I have with my mother. I also like to point out to people against gays adopting that their children are just as likely to end up gay too. But really, for me, the effort I would put forth in adopting a child would be no less than I'd put forth in preparing to have a biological one. And I've opted out for various reasons that would take too long to explain and all really boil down to barely being able to take care of myself.

I'm not against artificial insemination in that I think it should be banned or anything like that, or deciding who should and who shouldn't reproduce...although Bob knows there a few people I'd wish would never have offspring, but I do think people here(in the States) often dismiss it entirely when it's staring them right in the face. The process here is difficult and long, but certainly not impossible and not necessarily any longer than fertilization procedures. It's just that if you're in the position to choose, either because you've taken care not to get pregnant or cannot conceive naturally, the need is really there.

And I'm done helping steer this thread off track.

[covet]

My family isn't quite conventional either. My mum is one of six, and I'm the only only child. One of my aunts has five children by different fathers, and my grandmother raised three of my cousins for various reasons. I consider my grandmothers on both sides (and my grandfather on one side) to be like secondary parents to me.

My father's father died when he was young, and I know he considered my mother's dad to be like his own. Within my family we have mostly Italian Jewish ancestry. At the xmas table two years ago we had one aunt's Iranian muslim ex-husband and my half iranian cousin, another aunt's Irish catholic husband, and my aunt Yochana's Irish protestant boyfriend. Two of my cousins have mixed race Jamaican heritage. The twins are half irish with pale skin and red hair. I didn't say we all looked alike, but we all share something, and that something is very important to me. Just because three of my cousins have much darker skin doesn't mean I can't see my white, english grandfather in their faces. My grandma is Italian and my mother has very tan olive skin, but I'm pale as a ghost. I still have her eyes.

Which is a lengthy way to point out that I would never judge a family based on social setup or appearences - I'm certainly in no place to throw stones, nor would I wish to. And what I meant by the same bond has been slightly misinterpreted.

I don't doubt that the bond between a parent and an adopted child can be as close as any between biological relations. In my family we also have strays we've picked up along the way and consider our own. But it is, I think, a slightly different bond, particularly when you're adopting a child you haven't watched grow up. It can be an equal bond, and it's a wonderful thing to be able to give an adopted child the love and supportive environment they've missed out on.

I just don't think anyone should be judged or dismissed for wanting a child with their own genetics, and the genetics of the people they love. Just as I'd never judge (and would in fact applaud) someone for adopting. The need is definitely there.

Maybe it's one of those 'don't know what you've got 'til it's gone' things. I know when I was younger I had actually planned to adopt. But that was 10 years ago. It's getting to the point where I'd like a family in the next few years, and things feel different now.

And yeah, sorry. I shall stop veering, too. I just didn't want to leave it with the idea that I might frown on families who don't all look alike o_O Really, I'm in favour of love, whatever it's form.

[Huggles]

I will veer it slightly once, more, just to state the obvious that if everyone were to adopt other people's children there'd be no one left in the world very soon. Except for the zombies.

[AngharadTy]

This is a problem?

[Madge]

I will veer it in a completely different direction, with a question -

2 hour wait to vote? Yikes. What governs where polling booths are placed?

Here in Australia, where voting is compulsory, every single school has a polling booth in it, so I have 2 polling places within walking distance of my house each election, and thus no more than a 2 minute wait to vote. I am guessing it's not the same there?

As for the election, yay on Obama, boo on 8. The election was called whilst I was at work, my boss read out each news site's figures every 5 minutes and then played part of Obama's speech and all of McCain's loss speech. Didn't get to hear them very well, though, because pesky students kept on coming in and acting all "can you help me?".

[Huggles]

It's...complicated. You can't just vote anywhere. There's a specific polling location based upon where you live. It also depends upon just how many people will be there to run the things, the majority of whom I believe are still volunteers. There's definitely not one in every school, not that it would make much difference here seeing as how there are only about 5 schools for 18-20k people. Um...people also don't get out of working that day, so there are lots more people going to vote during shift changes.

Also, WoW presidential polls. Is Azeroth a red or blue state? Roffles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h5Kg-K7em20

[Seerow]

Indiana is a bit different in voting now, at least I think this is the first year its been done. They are calling it "Vote Centers" and anyone in the county can go to any of the centers, you aren't stuck going to a specific one. There was a list of like 15ish places for my county that I could choose to go vote in. Heck, there were three or four that were just a few minute drive from my house. Helped greatly curb down on the voting lines, as I was in and out in under 10 minutes and I went in the middle of the day.

[Teragram]

I will veer it slightly once, more, just to state the obvious that if everyone were to adopt other people's children there'd be no one left in the world very soon. Except for the zombies.

Only if you assume you can't adopt AND have children. Plus that's a paradox in the first place 'cause somebody's got to have the children we're adopting. There can only be as much adoption as there is baby-having.

[Huggles]

I meant, as in everyone adopting children instead of having them. Eventually, you'd run out of children to adopt if everyone stopped at where we are now. Just in case it was sounding like I thought no one should have children, which I don't because that's silly, and obviously you can do both.

[Fjorab_Teke]

I don't think we're ever going to run out of children to adopt, much less children at all or any serious decline in population. It may sound a little crude, but I think we could use some "planned thinning" via not having massive families every generation. I'm doing my part. *giggles*

To tie this in with the topic, somewhat, one of the reasons I SO wanted Obama to win (and Prop. 8 to lose) was that the McCain/Palin team would only reinforce the conservatives' ruling that there's only ONE "right way" - and to me, that's not what being an American is about or even should be. Darn me to heck fer bein' one-a them heathern LIBRULS!

During the early voting period, there were three legitimate places for me to vote, and I ended up choosing the main one (which also happened to be within easy walking distance of where I live now). During Election Day, it's divided up more formally, with many more voting locations, with a specific one that you're supposed to go to depending on which section of town you live in. I don't know what the wait time was like (since I did vote two weeks early), but I'm sure it helped with the massive turnout that there were so many more allocated voting places. Like I've said a lot of times recently (for various things in various places for various causes) "that's a good problem to have" when SO MANY people show up to vote that there's a significant waiting time. I guess our nation has taken it for granted that so few people really care enough to go out and vote that this time the system was overwhelmed.

[Madge]

Just out of curiosity, is there somewhere that shows what percentage of the US population voted?

As I said, thanks to Australia's "draconian" laws on forced voting, I find this fascinating. I used to work with an American exchange student and asked him questions about it. (He voted for Obama, so he will also be happy.) The whole "first past the post" voting system seems crazy, too, but it certainly would make things quicker than preferential voting like we have (I think it took something like a week for our state election to be called?)

[AngharadTy]

Official sites don't have this year's statistics posted yet. I've heard anywhere from 60-80% of registered voters. And I don't know what percentage of the overall population is registered.

[EofS]

Wow, Nebraska's finally allocated its remaining electoral vote and it's gone to Obama! A corner of Nebraska has turned blue.

Is anyone able to explain to me what the hold up is with Missouri?

[Jessi]

EofS, I have no idea. CNN I thought declared Missouri for McCain, and I was pretty sure that who it went to in the end.

[EofS]

I just had the sense to actually look it up somewhere beyond the BBC (who seem to still be asleep today as they've not even added the Nebraska thing!) and wiki tells me that there are still several thousand provisional ballots to be counted, so with only 5,000 in it it's not yet been called by more than CNN. Or something like that, your electoral system still confuses me a bit. What's this madness with 50% of the country picking the same candidate, that's not happened here since before WWII ;0)