Chai and Dragon revamp (+ staff discussion)

For posting new and revamped pet colours on Subeta.
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Xulael
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Post by Xulael »

What gets me is-- Part of the staff seems to purposely snub us users and take free shots (Chimera in particular, especially about anything pertaining to criticizing her art), and then when it comes to getting called on being jerks, the excuse that "Oh! We're only human!" gets thrown out.

Thinking about it, there's probably a reason Neopets doesn't allow their artist to have a part of news posting and dealing with users--some people are just HORRIBLE at public relations, and artists tend to be overly protective about things they've just drawn. Chimera is a shining example. She just doesn't seem to know how to drop the sarcasm and be genuinely polite. It doesn't matter if she's "only human", it's rubbing the user base the wrong way, which is going to lose some of the site's profit.

And, I'm sure the Staff doesn't like its user base much at all. It's just the feeling I (and many other users) get from how the staff talks to (or ignores) us. Instead of conceding that our feelings were bent out of shape, the staff tells us we're wrong. So, instead of apologies, we get to be forced to feel like we're in the wrong and the staff is a group of victims. How dare we dislike anything the staff does! They're only human! Victims of...their own stupidity.

I dunno, at this point, Subeta isn't the fun game it used to be, so I don't want much to do with it anymore.
[ X goes by Xulael on most sites ]
checkers
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Post by checkers »

Heeehee, I've put an offer in for another Angelic potion, I have faith in the Bloodred Torrent artist (whoever they may be) :3 to make the Angelic just as beautiful. *-* please upgrade that art soon <3 T_T but sadly, getting more pets to pick means making my Chibi Illumis a Darkmatter Kora and not having a Chibi Illumis -hugs Aqua- I luff your art ;-; but I dun have space for two Illumises anymore.
TCD
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Post by TCD »

Alright, I've been lurking at all 20+ pages, and now I have the time to say something. Re: The art? I don't have much of an opinion, I had no desire to own either of those pets before or after their respective revamps.

Re: Staff: As Wingrising pointed out, you all (you and all being generalized) are in customer service. It doesn't matter if the users call you names or critique/slam/whatever your art/service style/whatever....you still have to smile and say "Thank you sir, may I have another?" Because that is, unfortunately, what pleases people and gets them to spend more money at your establishment. Yeah, it sucks being treated as less than human but that's the price you gotta pay when working with some kinds of people. Really, if you can't take it, perhaps you should be elsewhere where you don't have to deal with customers as often. And it's nothing wrong with the person if they're not really a people person...it's just their personality. I love my job (see more on it below), I love running around and interacting with people....but my roomie would absolutely loathe it. I, on the other hand, couldn't stand doing her job of supervising a computer lab on campus. I'd get real bored, real quick.

I work at a dining center on campus, and I will freely admit some of the professors who eat there are rude pigs who wouldn't give me the time of day because I am, essentially, a glorified waitress....but I still smile and thank them for coming when they leave and greet them. Why? So they come back and spend more money so my position doesn't get cut and leave me without a paycheck. Sometimes I want to tell those professors to shove their expensive books and boring journal articles up someplace uncomfortable...but I don't. Because that's customer service, and from what I'm seeing from quite a few of the staff members (at least, from what was posted here)....it's quite lacking. If Subeta was an offline store, and I was treated (or noticed other people being treated) the way I've seen some users treated...I'd walk out and tell my friends not to shop there. Negative experiences get spread around FAR faster than positive ones, unfortunately, so it's something you have to think about when running a business and being an employer.

I think it's very telling when many people here assumed that many staff were under 18, when in fact those staff were in their 20's and 30's.

Tl;dr: Wingrising is much better at saying stuff than I. Please read her post about customer service. I agree with it.
Minno150
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Post by Minno150 »

Eh. There was one point I'd been contemplating all day and I guess I get to bring that up now...

About the "non-artist can't critique as efficiently as an artist" thing, I have to agree. Granted, I'm not in the art industry (I just draw a lot and intend to get up there) and can't even pretend I know a thing about it, but I find it more efficient to have an actual artist critique your work. Kelpie may be very good at critiquing, I obviously wouldn't know. But an actual artist is generally better because they can point out the problem areas and offer tips on how to improve. I know I've benefited from any tips I've gotten. Strangely, though, I've benefited most from tips I hadn't gotten. XD I have a friend who draws awesome people and I learn a lot just by looking at her art. I see what she puts into her work and try to mimick it into my style. Such as the folds of clothing, positions and shape of hands, and a profile view of a face.

It's like a how to draw manga book (the only how to draw I've ever pulled anything effectively from), you learn how to draw a body of decent proportions, and get an idea of just how to draw hair or eyes or a mouth or nose. How to draw's are written by artists, to artists. It's impersonal, but still, you're getting tips from an artist that way.

I find it makes more sense... anyone can walk up and say "Oh that's amazing!". I get comments like that a lot at school (and that is why I know nothing of the art industry, zero job). But they always say that, because they can't draw. I have to just smile and shrug because I know that there's flaws, but seeing as I'm a student just as they are, it's amazing for someone their age.
Then there's always the people who say it looks like crap or is unoriginal because everyone uses the manga style (someone said that to a friend of mine once, and she hasn't drawn much since then). Do they offer any advice? Sure, maybe. They say to draw more "realistic". But can they define just how to attempt that? Not at all, because they don't have any experience at drawing.

Kelpie might have a skill that I have yet to hear of, she may not. I wouldn't know. But, on average, having an artist critique artists seems more efficient to me.


Oh, and while everyone's using this general term of "staff", the only ones I can seem to see repeating themselves are Jessyta, Kelpie, and Chim. The rest of staff has appeared to be pretty quiet. o.0 Not saying to leap all over them, but that there is a heck of a lot more than three people on staff. "A few staff members" or "some of the staff" might be better terms if you don't want to directly pounce or generalize, considering we know it's offensive to use names and it's been made apparent that the staff are taking offense when spoken to generally.
Sarivonne
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Post by Sarivonne »

I just thought about something.

The word quality vs quanity came to my mind when talking about chimera. Sure she can handle the workload and she can draw well, but she can't really vary her style. It's like you can pick out her art in a sea of items.

And we like her art, I find the coloring on the fester very nice, but over time, we got used to it and praised her, and soon it began looking more rushed, the shading looking blobby and blotchy, the line art no longer dynamic, the poses dull. It just became...mediocre :/
Minno150
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Post by Minno150 »

Eh, yeah. I recognised the Dragon as Chim's art when I saw it. Just by how pudgy it looked.

Though, if you look at the Experiment 2285, the lion, which I'm certain is hers because I recall commenting on it on deviantart and it used to go with her leupaks, it is indeed a fat lion but the shading makes it sturdier. Like, a fat belly but much more muscled head and limbs. I'm thinking maybe that one was taken at ease, as opposed to running under the affects of a heavy workload?

Keep in mind, art staffies, we reeeeally don't need revamps as soon as possible, kay? ^_^ I'm sure we'd love to see them after they've been taken time on.
shaelyn76
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Post by shaelyn76 »

I keep seeing the same thing on all the forums regarding the most recent revamps (including the swampie). So many users are saying they feel left out of the process and like they aren't being heard or taken into account without the poll system on species revamps. I really hope they listen on this issue and start doing polls again. I know they aren't the most accurate system that could be used, but it is a decent system and it gives us users a sense of belonging instead of feeling pushed to the sidelines. Even most people who say they preferred the old swampie have said they would've felt better about this revamp if there had been a poll showing a majority supporting the change. We just want to be included, especially when it comes to something as important to the site and each user as their pets who were chosen for very specific reasons.
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Minno150
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Post by Minno150 »

Unlike the case of the dragon, I'm pretty certain the new swampie revamp would have won anyway. *shrugs* It's just, not that completely different... and it's a vast improvement. Now I won't be Swampie tipping anytime in the future, because they'd be too smart for me. o.o Probably trip me with their uber long tail.
shaelyn76
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Post by shaelyn76 »

Oh, I'm sure the new swampie would've won out in a poll, but a lot of users seem really unhappy that there was no poll at all no matter what the likely outcome would have been. It's the whole loss of feeling like we do more than show up on the site. Some of us really appreciated the true level of interaction on Subeta that we had not or could not have experienced elsewhere. It is one thing that made Subeta so appealing and unique. they actually seemed to care what their users thought and had to say about things. It seems they are going away from that though with the loss of polls on pet revamps and I along with many other users it woudl seem are kinda upset by this.

They did look kind of cow-ish before didn't they? LOL!!!
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Minno150
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Post by Minno150 »

^_^ Only cowish because of how fat they were and that dumb vacant stare... the vacant look is what made me think "Swampie tipping".

And we didn't have a poll on every revamp before, just the major ones and what staff wasn't entirely sure on. Because the Dragon, an extremely major change, wasn't polled, people are getting peeved at everything that isn't polled. I can see not polling Swampie, but the Dragon's unpolledness has everyone all "POLLS! POLLS! POLLS!"
shaelyn76
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Post by shaelyn76 »

On the subject of polls: The backlash afterwards most likely wouldn't be so bad if they at least put on the show of giving a shit about our feelings and opinions before they jacked up our pets. Sure there would still be people complaining no matter what they did, but at least with a poll they can point to the results and say conclusively, "this is what the majority of the users wanted"
Last edited by shaelyn76 on 12 Jun 2007 11:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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AngharadTy
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Post by AngharadTy »

If you want to talk about swampies, there's a whole different swampie topic.
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Post by shaelyn76 »

I'm sorry...though I was discussing the swampie I felt I should post here as I was also talking about the lack of polls and how some staff continue to blow off the user repeated response that they want polls. Feel free to move my posts elsewhere if needed.
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Post by AngharadTy »

It's impossible to move posts from one topic to another. The most I can do is split it away for being off-topic and then lock that post. It's just a few posts, so I won't bother, but please, take Swampie discussion to the Swampie topic. You can even talk about polls there. It's appropriate.
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Post by shaelyn76 »

Oh! I'll go back and edit it now...sorry!! :oops:
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