Elzaim wrote:Now, please don't take this personal, but a non-artist cannot critique work as effectivly as an artist. It's just that people who have had art training know a bit more about anatomy, shading and the like then someone without formal training. Sure, they can make critiques, but having an artist as the major critiquer would be a huge benefit for the Subeta team.
I strongly disagree. You don't have to be an artist in order to know technique. It takes study, of course. But you don't have to draw to critique drawings, or play music to critique songs, or be a chef to critique food. Does it help? Sure. Do I know anything about Kelpie's skills? No. I'm not talking about that here. I'm saying that you can give a perfect critique and not be capable of drawing a convincing stick figure.
Incidentally, I have to mention that it's pretty amusing that you'd come to Neocolours--a place built around critiquing pets--and say that you can't do it properly unless you're an artist.
Elzaim wrote:Now, please don't take this personal, but a non-artist cannot critique work as effectivly as an artist. It's just that people who have had art training know a bit more about anatomy, shading and the like then someone without formal training. Sure, they can make critiques, but having an artist as the major critiquer would be a huge benefit for the Subeta team.
I strongly disagree. You don't have to be an artist in order to know technique. It takes study, of course. But you don't have to draw to critique drawings, or play music to critique songs, or be a chef to critique food. Does it help? Sure. Do I know anything about Kelpie's skills? No. I'm not talking about that here. I'm saying that you can give a perfect critique and not be capable of drawing a convincing stick figure.
Incidentally, I have to mention that it's pretty amusing that you'd come to Neocolours--a place built around critiquing pets--and say that you can't do it properly unless you're an artist.
if i read her original post correctly, which i believe i did, she stated that non-artists cannot do it as effectively. she's not saying they cannot do it at all. of course someone who has formal training in the visual arts is probably going to be able to critique it BETTER than someone who is not.. which is obvious.
AngharadTy wrote:Yes, but I'm saying that they <i>can</i> do it as effectively.
perhaps, but i think you're taking it in the wrong way, which is why she placed the disclaimer there to begin with. someone with formal training is likely to have more of a honed eye than someone who is not. she's stating an obvious fact.
given the art that has come out of the site lately (vis-a-vis the dragon revamp, galactic dragon/paralix/etc.. which have received heavy critiques and many have issues with), i think it's perfectly fair for her to wonder if the people in power who are "critiquing" the work have the eye to be able to make proper judgements.
this is in no way a potshot at kelpie or any of the other artists on the website. but if we're questioning chimaera's drawings, is it not fair, then, to question the other staffers who pushed the art through?
I'm not misunderstanding. Elzaim said, "a non-artist cannot critique work as effectivly (sic) as an artist," and I'm saying that someone who doesn't draw at all can potentially critique just as well as someone who can draw. Yes, they both have to study technique in order to do so. But you don't need to have an artistic talent of your own to recognize, study, and criticize other art. It's a popular misconception.
kelpie, you keep posting how "phenomenal" and "awesome" Chimera is but I rarely, if at all, ever see you post about equal awesomeness the other artists are, like for Aqua, it's just 'Oh Aqua already has pets'. I feels ... sour to me. I wont go into details, but I don't like it.
Just because Chimera has nothing to do but subeta and can handle a large workload doesn't mean she should. Everything is slowly becoming her style, when before there was a large range of pet styles to choose from. It feels like it's going to rapidly dwindle now, and the problem isn't that her art is bad, it's just that it sticks out like a sore thumb. And everyone is supposed to convert their style to fit subeta's. A while back, her work did fit subeta style, then the dillema came out and that started to change. The fester also felt completely different, too realistic.
I think that's one of the problems, too much realism. Before the fester was a unique, vulture/flamingo looking bird. Now it's just a vulture with a mohawk. And the dragon, while ironically called dragon, did not fully have the features of a normal dragon. Now we're forced to have all 3 pure draconic creatures looking almost identical. And now even the mortiking is able to be lumped into that group thanks to how the legs look.
Again, i think this all would have gone smoother if there was more positive comments to user feedback, since there was basically none. I think if there had been a poll this would have also been better. A lack of sarcasm would have been nice, ie; your comments to spiritchan, your replies to users on the boards and profiles.
I know you guys are staff and your work hard, but the people you speak to work hard too. And not just that, we are your customers. We pay for your site, and while artists are important, your clients are more important.
I'm not going to look back for the post, but it's not good for a staff member to look so condescending kelpie.
I can't really approve of the news posts about how the server is having 'hiccups' when some of us know what really happened. Why would I believe something staff would say when I've been lied to by you guys since the start of this stupid longcat thing. And no, I'm not a channer, I just do research and don't believe things I'm spoon fed.
On topic: Rah will you be revamping the chibi chai? I think it needs it greatly. The chai needed a revamp much more than the dragon and now it looks very nice.
Last edited by Patrick on 12 Jun 2007 08:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
Why are you revamping pets that really don't need to be revamped anyway? If you really want to "update" art, can't you just add another layer of shading using photoshop? Subeta is known for having 547697896 layers in their images anyway...
Even though the dragon doesn't match the old, perhaps we can compromise and make it its own new species, with some tweaks here and there? It's still a very nice image and design, I'd hate to see it go...
Am I the only one who doesn't see anything "wrong" with these artists' art that they're firing?
... For any Subetastaff who may lurk on the forum, how exactly is the item/pet design changing and evolving? I keep seeing excuses of "we're letting them go because their art isn't up to our standards," but what exactly ARE staff's standards?
I ask because I'm seeing a general decline in the quality in a lot of the site's art, including revamping species and items who definitely don't need it. There are far more deserving items/species/art and other such projects that attention should be on. Stop trying to fix things that aren't broken, dammit.
Now I'm only going on assumption for this part, but I've heard from several places that Kelpie does not do art, or is not an artist - but she is in charge of critiquing all the art that goes through. Now, please don't take this personal, but a non-artist cannot critique work as effectivly as an artist. It's just that people who have had art training know a bit more about anatomy, shading and the like then someone without formal training. Sure, they can make critiques, but having an artist as the major critiquer would be a huge benefit for the Subeta team.
I'm also under the assumption that most of the staff are young, or at least under 20. I believe someone else already made a comment about this - but how many teenagers fresh out of school or still in college have a tonne of professional management skills? I think one of the huge problems I've noticed lately with the staff is the lack of said management, and the juvinile-ness of certain posted things. Personally, I think more older people with extensive knowledge in the management areas need to be hired, not favourites or 'oldbies' of the site.
While it's true that I do not have the talents to draw anything any better myself, my eye is no less trained to know what looks good and what does not. However, I am JOINT art directory with a fellow ARTIST. So you see, it all balances out.
And managing staff, at least the art staff, is all over 20. Some of us are hitting closer to 30.
I especially miss my old mushy hat 