Dragon Name Change and Capital Lettered Pet Names Thread

[Arviragus]

Not capitalizing the names just makes it look like the staff is too lazy to put the extra effort in that's required to hit the Shift key. next thing we know all world text will look like this what with the lack of punctuation and capitalization and it gets boring and tedious to read hey

[Kamil]

*walks in from v.v.v.long day and sees this*

Oy.

See, the thing is . . . No, I'm way too tired for this, and Ty and Wings both handled the 'why this is not correct usage' bits way better than I probably would've anyway.

I will say this before I go off to make a very strong drink: so long as the made up names are only one or two letters off of a real word, and especially if said extra letter(s) adds to the "I'm looking at a typo, aren't I?" vibe, people will probably never be really happy about the made-up name. Personally, I'd suggest looking up that fantasy name generator site that's out there somewhere. It's very easy to tweak it for personal preference.

[Luxe]

Not capitalizing the names just makes it look like the staff is too lazy to put the extra effort in that's required to hit the Shift key. next thing we know all world text will look like this what with the lack of punctuation and capitalization and it gets boring and tedious to read hey

Have I really been that good about fixing Keith's news posts that you haven't noticed how they sometimes do lack punctuation? XD

[Huggles]

Not everyone speaks English and knows that the 'g' in reign is silent. That's like telling people who aren't familiar with Dutch names that something rhymes with Stijn. Rain was just a simpler word to use.

If your English is decent enough for you to be able to read and understand the news in the first place, I'd say you'd probably know how to pronounce reign. English is the only language Subeta allows us to use anyway. Eh. It's a minor annoyance, but silly on both sides.

Dragon was a stupid name. Stupid for so, so many reasons that the little mice that run my brain spinned themselves to exhaustion trying to think up a stupider name. You can't, you can't own dragon. I mean. Apple can own the name apple in relation to computers to a certain extent, but naming a virtual pet dragon Dragon would be like someone trying to copyright Apple apples. Yes, a name change was definitely in order. rreign is a stupid name. Less stupid than dragon, but still way down there on this list of names I would have preferred. My level of caring is still fairly nonexistent. However, it should be noted that Neocolours as a whole cares about words and names to a great degree. They're probably second only to colors, and by that I mean pet art and design.

The lack of capitalization confuses me. I will have to say that it has always confounded me when Neopets capitalized the names of "species", but only in text. Allow me to explain. Having species names capitalized for things like the description at the top of the page and especially for items, makes sense to me. I like it. It's like, gods I'm awful at this, the title of a book or magazine or something. To me, it makes sense to capitalize species names in the news when you're announcing something, well new obviously.

The species capitalization naming convention never crossed my mind either. I'd have never though to say Koala instead of koala or Platypus instead of platypus, knowing full well that unlike tigers there's only one kind. It is weird for everyday conversation. At a glance, Wikipedia switches back and forth. The main squirrel page capitalizes them, but the individual species pages kinda forget about it. Meh.

Fine: I just bought this neat new mahar plushie.
Weird: I just bought this neat new Mahar plushie.

Fine: Golden Mahar Plushie (item name)
Also fine: Neocolours the Golden Mahar (Title)

Weird: I have a pet named Neocolours, and she's a Golden Mahar.
Fine: I have a pet name Neocolours, and she's a golden mahar.

I don't know or care what rules those do or don't follow, but that's what makes sense to me. So no, I wouldn't capitalize mahar or chelon outside of items or titles, on Subeta. There isn't another kind of mahar, so you don't really need to differentiate amongst other Mahars. In the same way that you don't usually have to go out of your way to explain what type of human you're talking about. But, if I were to publish a review of pet sites, I'd probably say Mahar or Kyrii or Nokwi (Mistic Pet).

[Jessi]

Well, even here when we're critiquing a pet we obviously switch between capitalizing the species and not doing it. Whether it's because it's how you see it in your head, or various degrees of laziness, or whatever, it doesn't really matter. However, I do feel this:

After much discussion amongst themselves, the dragons have announced that they would henceforth prefer to be referred to as rreigns to better distinguish themselves from the plethora of other dragon species on Subeta.

looks weird, somehow READS weird (this is a mental thing, I know, but it's there), and just sounds and feels very impersonal. It seems awkward to refer to the incredible intelligence of the 'pets' on Subeta and yet have their species in lower case in the same sentence.

Ty and Wings explained it far better scientifically than I ever could. It sounds, reads, and looks weird in my head and on my screen, and that's all I can say. It just doesn't look RIGHT. I mean, geez, it's a simple change - to hold the shift key down - but it LOOKS better:

After much discussion amongst themselves, the Dragons have announced that they would henceforth prefer to be referred to as Rreigns to better distinguish themselves from the plethora of other dragon species on Subeta.

I mean, aside from the double r and the fact that the name still isn't great. The sentence LOOKS better as a whole that way.

I've been staring at text too long *crawls back to nano*

[covet]

1. rreign not only looks like a typo, it looks like the kind of thing people name their Subetapets when the real word is taken.

2. People are bringing up the welsh thing because it's just silly. You weren't inspired by actual welsh, you were inspired by the welsh name for a dragon, which happens to have a double consonant. Rreign could as easily have been inspired by Llama.

So yes, if you have silly reasons for doing things, it may be best not to mention them. If you have awesome reasons, then by all means. Just be aware that people's definitions of silly and awesome do vary.

3. I find the 'I thought this community didn't like the pet, so why should you care' argument to be kind of offensive. I do like the Dragon, although not as much since the revamp. But not being a species' greatest fan doesn't mean I'll fail to notice when you make it worse. Being told I'm not allowed to care about something is... eh. Particularly when it's your site, and art. I'd expect you to be pleased that some of us evidently do give a shit.

4.

So, we should do it because Neopets does it? I saw the same argument made with naming Halloween, and I couldn't believe it. How many people would be in line to mock us if we made decisions on the basis of what Neopets was doing? Personally, I think that makes no sense.

I'm actually spending more time on Neopets lately because there has been less general dickery and frustration than on Subeta. I'm not the only one. That, I feel, is also something Subeta staff should care about. So yes, you should take comparisons seriously.

Granted, we don't expect as much fron Neo, they're a corporate machine now. Subeta established itself by being different, you have more to live up to, and lately you're kind of letting yourselves down.

At least in staff responses I've seen on here, it seems the customer is always wrong.


5. I have noticed that Keith's posts are getting less painful to read! Kudos.

6.

Er, there is no digraph rr in Welsh, and r always represents a rolled R (an unvoiced one, in the case of rh). This is why claiming that it's Welsh-inspired is absurd. Sure, it is literally the case that you were inspired by Welsh, but to reflect this you've applied a feature no Welsh word has to an English word that is basically a great big artefact of the Old French influence on Old English. You're doing it wrong.

You, me... somewhere dark and sticky.

[Luxe]

Not everyone speaks English and knows that the 'g' in reign is silent. That's like telling people who aren't familiar with Dutch names that something rhymes with Stijn. Rain was just a simpler word to use.

If your English is decent enough for you to be able to read and understand the news in the first place, I'd say you'd probably know how to pronounce reign. English is the only language Subeta allows us to use anyway. Eh. It's a minor annoyance, but silly on both sides.

Not to be snarky, but I feel like I should point out that I had to tell Keith how to pronounce "reign" without the double-r, and English is his first and only language. English is the language of Subeta, but it would be inconsiderate of me to assume that everyone had mastered the language or that it was even their first language. Really, this is such a nit-picky annoyance. It wasn't to dissuade people from making the connection between rreign and the actual word. We don't mind the ties to the real word at all. It was just an effort to make grasping the pronunciation easier for people.

The lack of capitalization confuses me. I will have to say that it has always confounded me when Neopets capitalized the names of "species", but only in text. Allow me to explain. Having species names capitalized for things like the description at the top of the page and especially for items, makes sense to me. I like it. It's like, gods I'm awful at this, the title of a book or magazine or something. To me, it makes sense to capitalize species names in the news when you're announcing something, well new obviously.

Fine: I just bought this neat new mahar plushie.
Weird: I just bought this neat new Mahar plushie.

Fine: Golden Mahar Plushie (item name)
Also fine: Neocolours the Golden Mahar (Title)

Weird: I have a pet named Neocolours, and she's a Golden Mahar.
Fine: I have a pet name Neocolours, and she's a golden mahar.

Thank you, Huggles. This is essentially exactly how we felt, with the exception of the news posts. Because they're written as little excerpts of lore and not as an official title, we've simply agreed to make it lowercase. As I said in the news comments and here, we're not making item titles or pet profiles in all lowercase, because these are titles. The only places these changes will be noticed are in item descriptions, stories and plots, and news posts. Unfortunately, with all the hullabaloo, I think people are misunderstanding this to be a site-wide change.

I'm not opposed to further discussion on the decision within staff. Wingsrising's point was one I was somewhat expecting people to make, which was to capitalize species names and not the color. It's obviously not our first choice, but it also makes sense and I, personally, can appreciate that.

Being told I'm not allowed to care about something is... eh. Particularly when it's your site, and art. I'd expect you to be pleased that some of us evidently do give a shit.

I never said you were not entitled to care, and I believe I made that clear in a later comment. We do appreciate that someone gives a shit because we'll never grow without feedback; I'm just surprised it was Neocolours in particular that gave so much of a shit.

[Jessi]

Here's what I don't get. Why, if it IS causing so much hullabaloo, are you just arguing with people in public about it? Wouldn't it be a lot easier to just edit the news post, capitalize the names of the pets, and let it go?

This is what I don't understand. You say you're listening to feedback and taking it all in, but all you've done is defend yourself and occasionally act flat out rude to people. That's not exactly listening

(Again, 'you' here referring in general to the Subeta staff, not just you, Luxe)

ETA - Also, I think it's... ridiculous that some people on Subeta get away with being just downright NASTY to other posters simply because they're ex-staff or are friends with staff. But that's a whole other kettle of fish (mostly involving the fact that apparently you can't report people for harassment which is just ridiculous, but anyway...)

[Iggy]

I mod Bragging/Complaining. I'm probably the non-paid staff member who has to deal with the most BAWWW on Subeta. Seriously.

Seeing people BAWWWW for a Capital letter sorta bother me. Subeta has done much more controversial things (I was reading a oldold thread about Fallen Fallacy Faith last night) than I find it ODD to use a capital letter as a battlehorse. Really odd.

The Dragon's name had to be changed, I think pretty much everyone agreed on that. The name taken is not my favorite, but eh, it's better than Dragon. Close to anything would have been better.


A lot of members against the change are being downright awful to staff as well, from what I've seen on news comments. And it's not the type of attitude people will see in B&C. News comments ought to be moderated more.

[Elfwoman99]

Dragon is an English word.

Reign is also an English word.

[Jessi]

You're right, Iggy. Comments do need to be moderated more - from both sides. Users should have to watch what they say, and staff should have to watch how they respond. It's not a one-way street.

[Wingsrising]

I agree that people *shouldn't* abuse the staff. However, people *will*. Unfortunately putting up with abuse from rude people is part and partial of a customer service or public relations job (be it a paid job or a volunteer job).

I have to say I find seeing my complaints about the change referred to as BAWWWW very disturbing.

[Iggy]

Customers are NOT always right, though. When they're expecting to be part of every decision, even trivial ones, including item revamps and renames, I draw the line there.

So, we are customers, we should get what we want now...eh, it doesn't work well in my mind. If it was a serious battlehorse, like doubleblocking, yes, staff came back on its decision. A capital letter. It just makes me giggle.

I'll still refer my Spectrum Demi as a Spectrum Demi. It's my freedom of expression. I can't and won't be warned for it, so why bother?

(Go see customers_suck on LJ or that notalwaysright website for customers being absolute dipshits. )

[Jessi]

I'm sure we've all seen customers being dipshits, Iggy. I work in retail. I deal with it every day. But guess what? As the manager at a retail outlet, part of my JOB is to listen to customers being dipshits, no matter how ridiculous their complaint is, and to attempt to make it right. That's the way being in charge of a job that involves ANY sort of customer service works.

Customers at my job do not always get what they want, no. If there's a product we can't carry, there's nothing I can do about it. Do they still get mad? Sure. People can be idiots. Do I like to send people to other places to shop? No, but i will, if it makes them happy. Of course, Subeta doesn't WANT to send people to 'other places to shop', and that's all well and good. They don't have that luxury. If I send one customer across the street to walmart to buy something, my entire corporation isn't going to go bankrupt. Even if I send SEVERAL customers away, it's not going to really make a dent. Subeta will. It has a large enough fanbase where people are going to have an opinion on EVERY decision, yes. It also has a small enough user base where Subeta does not have the luxury of simply sending people away.

I deal with a lot of morons. I also make a lot of morons happy, because I'm doing my job. Sure, customers can be idiots. It doesn't give an excuse to the staff to not listen and to be rude back.

I have to say I find seeing my complaints about the change referred to as BAWWWW very disturbing.

I do, too. Obviously there's nothing that can be done from an official standpoint about anyone on staff doing that here, or any other non-Subeta website. However, I'd figure the powers that be would want ALL members of their staff to represent Subeta in a mature, sophisticated way. And this is the kind of attitude used ON site that really gets to me.

[Wingsrising]

I spent every summer at college working fast food. Believe me, I learned all about customers being jerks.

But you know what? We still had to be polite to the customers being jerks. We weren't allowed to tell them they were being jerks. We weren't allowed to bitch about what jerks they were where the other customers could overhear us. The managers still had to try to make the customers being jerks happy. Because they're *customers.* The customer may not always be right, but you sure as heck don't make money by lecturing them on how they're wrong.

I know customer service can be a hard job -- there's a reason I didn't decide to make it my career -- but if you honestly think that customers suck, then customer service is not a good career field for you. Customers don't suck. Even when they're being jerks, customers don't suck. Because if all the customers went away... the customer service people wouldn't have a job anymore. Hell, even if all the customers who are jerks went away, the customer service people wouldn't have a job anymore.

If all the people who are doing what you characterize as "BAWWWWWW" left, there'd be no more Subeta.