Torrey revamp poll

[Saturn]

It's better art-wise. than the original, but it still needs a lot of work. The pose looks really stiff and unnatural, for one thing :/ It needs to look more relaxed and playful, not like it's been stuffed and mounted or something. O_o

And I know what they were trying to go for with the feet, but it just doesn't look right... Like it just has vaguely foot-shaped blobs of fur rather than actual feet, or whatever.

[Jessi]

Seerow, that's something I have a problem with, too. I was actually talking about this with Rah earlier, that I think staff needs to quit edging on the bad comments, but people who DO post just useless, aggravating comments that involve nothing but saying "Fuck this sucks" should probably be... banned from comments, somehow. Of course, I don't know how much Subeta works behind the scenes with stuff like this, but I feel like there should be more UA in the comments to control people being total jackasses and less artists to edge them on and make it worse. It turns into a vicious cycle.

[Fullmetal Dragon]

I think it is totally uncalled for for anybody to say that someone 'fails as an artist' just because they included a trait that the original pet had. Jag is working really hard on this pet, and she certainly does not fail. There is an awful lot of work that goes into these things in the background, and just because you can't see it is not an excuse to be flat-out rude.

Constructive comments on something is fine. Heck, even a tweaked image is okay with me, if the person trying to help can't find a way to put what they're trying to say in words -- I've done this many, many times. What is not okay are users being spiteful and disrespectful to the artist and saying that we should expect it because we work for a petsite. Users are not exempt from rules of standard politeness, so if the only comment you have is 'I HAET IT AND U SUX DIAF' then you probably should just keep your mouth shut.

[Sunwolf]

Good for you, Rah. You know the side of Jag that the users don't get to see. You know Jag personally. But the users don't - and they don't know how she helps you and inspires you, and that she's your hero. I can't see how amazing she is with the other artists, or her work behind the scenes. All the users know is that she is a Subeta Artist, and that her latest work is the Torrey revamp that many users don't like.

All I know of Jag is that she is an Artist who is trying to revamp the Torrey. And that when I posted that I thought there were too many Glacier pets that showed you their butt and that I thought that it was an unattractive pose, she said "Why, what a great idea! I'll make sure all my pets are like that now! " Why the hell should I show her respect and professionalism? She sure doesn't me any.

My comments on the Torrey were not "IT SUCKS KILL IT." In fact, many of the comments here have been as harsh or harsher than what I said. You don't like my opinion? Fine, that's your right. But it's my right to give it. Saying that Jag fails as an Artist was out of line, and for that I'm sorry.

Many users on Subeta are not mature adults - they are whiny, self-centered jerks, and of course their comments are going to be useless and aggravating. But banning people from comments because you can't handle what they say? Really? Can't artists just ignore it or not respond? That's what users who block harassing, annoying people are told to do.


Tche: "There is no hiding your opinion in news comments. It can be held against you." Wow, that sounds vaguely threatening. Are people going to be frozen because they give harsh comments? Just because you don't like them? Because you think the person is a jerk? Once again, Subeta Staff amazes me with their professionalism.

[Seerow]

Sunwolf, I do believe having their back facing you is one of the standards of Glacier. Much like flying/skipping/OMG HAPPY poses are for Spectrum, and floating in space for Galactic. Giving you the cold shoulder is an effective means of having pets look aloof, which is the general theme behind Glacier. That, and there are plenty of colors that have pets facing you, having a back view once in awhile is nice and mixes it up some.

I do think a temporary ban from comments might prove useful. Nothing permanent, but perhaps 24 hrs or something. It would give the user in question a chance to cool down and maybe think about why what they said wasn't appropriate.

[Wingsrising]

I think people shouldn't make comments like, "Fuck this sucks."

I think if you're going to put your work out in public -- as an artist, a writer, a director, an actor, a teacher, a critic, or a zillion other professions -- you have to be prepared to hear a lot of comments like, "Fuck this sucks" and to NOT respond in kind. You do this because you are a professional and getting into shouting matches over comments like "Fuck this sucks" is not a professional thing to do.

(Dude, could you imagine the chaos on college campuses if professors went off on stupid comments on our teaching evaluations the way some people on Subeta go off over stupid comments in the comments? But we don't. We drink and eat chocolate and then when we feel better we swap "stupid comments" stories at parties instead.)

I don't know that there's anything wrong with the art per se -- except the wing coming out of the arm. The problem is that it looks like, as Sunwolf pointed out, someone's chibi fursona, not a Subeta pet. A well-drawn chibi fursona, but still a furry and not a pet.

[Sarivonne]

Dude, I have major respects for Jag as an artist. Her range of pets is incredible. She has wolves/foxes, whales, DINOSAWRS, and a hell of a lot of other pets. So I know she'll work to make this revamp right (recalls the feli revamp and the amount of chaos that spawned) I also hope she makes a few changes before this goes through. And I need to agree that she is by no means a 'fail artist' because of the emo fringe.

I'm not means butt kissing as I already pointed out that I'm not very pleased with this revamp. But I don't think Neocolours needs to see insulting comments like that. It's why I avoid the comments page on subeta (for 2 reasons, crits normally get you slain by 'LET'S SEE YOU DRAW IT BETTER SUBETA STAFF IS GOD' comments, and the over abundance of 'lol cute' comments.) Neocolours tends to make it easier to find thoughtful critiques without having to sort through 100+ of the same comment. At least I mean for me.

Anyway, I hope the eye is toned down. Because if the eye is THAT BIG for the normal, the chibi eye will be so huge that it will be larger than the universe and probably engulf all of us!

I want to pet it's fur though.

[Zekumi]

I always thought that maybe things would go more positively if they polled multiple sketches for different poses. And maybe instead of keeping the comment box open, they had like a ... I dunno. Like a small little box for actual 'reviews'.
I hate it when I see the artist backlash and get real snippy and sarcastic. I mean, I know it must feel like a personal attack to them (and the comments sure can be rude), but it's so put offish.
Isn't being an artist for Subeta like ... a job? I'm not used to seeing staff for a website argue and bicker alongside unruly members.


It really surprises me when a new revamp is introduced and everyone's going "Well the new art is far superior!" or something to that degree. I'm just like "Well of COARSE the proposed revamp has superior art." The pets that go up for revamps are the ones that typically are the most out-dated, so yeah. The art IS going to be superior. I think we're way past the point were that's a novelty, or something that should/could be mentioned as a positive pro.

/end more off topicness

Back on topic, I really like your redline, Goldenchaos. Even so, I personally think it *still* could be a bit more fat/fluffy. Too much white space leftover.
That might just be me, though.

I think that the eyes could definitely be improved by 1. taking the downward slant out of them, 2. making sure the iris/pupils don't take up the whole eye.

[Kamil]

Okay. So. I always worry if I should post about pets I hated to begin with, but hell, I have actual ideas this time, so why not.

I wish the eyes were still green, but hey, that's personal preference. At least to me. However, I bet there are at least a few people out there with complex character concepts of pre-existing pets that are based, in part, on the pet's green eyes. While I'm not one of them, I don't see any reason to go out of one's way to jack with those poor people and their pets. I know, I know, Subeta is NOT a pet site, but there have to be at least a few people (aside from us here =) who still play it as such.

The conformation of the neck is freaking me out. I really, truly don't think it's capable of supporting the head as drawn, and to me, that's not a personal preference crit. I just can't see how it could hold that head.

And while we're here, that head really seems ginormous. With the change of the body from short and squat to tall and willowy, decreasing the size and heft of the body almost two-fold, while keeping, or slightly increasing, the size of the head seems an odd stylistic choice, yanno?

The change in the wing color, as with the eyes, seems random and uncalled for. And with the color change the pretty bands on the ends of the wings can't be seen anymore, and I think they add to the existing pet.

The fur is very, very pretty and I wish there were more of it on the body. The new pet seems a great deal less fluffy on its body than the old was, and given how pretty the fur on the head and tail is, I really wish there were as much on the new pet's body as there was on the old. *sits and ruffles the prettypretty tail*

Finally, the smile of the new one seems so very, very creepy to me. The expression of the old pet with its upward glance was very much of a "Hey, dude, how's it going?" sort of feel. The new one is very much of a "I'm waiting for you to turn your back. You know that, right?" impression. I think it'd serve the bloodred pet quite nicely, as is. But common? No, not so much.

I love Jag's work, so I wish I had better things to say about this particular pet. :/

[Joey]

Can't say I like it. It's actually pretty terrifying. The neck is really too thin, looks like it's gonna snap and it's head it's just going to roll around all limp, but it'll keep that same smile. Which isn't helping the creepy factor.

The eyes are too big too, I think. I'm just imagining the skull on it, and how the eye sockets would take up like the entire thing. They're actually the same shape of eyes that I usually draw (only much prettier), and I think they could really look much better just by being smaller. I think the head shape in general should be tweeked with so it looks less flat.

Really aside from the weird feet that could use toes and wing problems brought up by others, most of my problems with it are from the shoulders up.

[Huggles]

I also express the desire for the comments to be moderated, then I might actually read them since they're easier to get to than obscure forum posts. I do not find the needless drama amusing. I mean, it can be, but there are lots more things I can do for my own amusement that have a bit more gravitas. I mean, uh, I should be able to explain what I mean, being a mod. But it seems to be escaping me. I've still yet to sleep. Doesn't Subeta have rules for posting? This whole roundabout issue just confuses me. I mean, Subeta will supposedly freeze your account for just restating a trivial question. If the posts break the rules, delete/edit them and go on about your day? I mean, Neocolours still has the don't be a jackass rule and the rule that says starting an argument with someone who we think isn't as stupid as you means we'll take their side? That's pretty much what will happen here, though what we and Subeta think is and isn't pure asshatery may differ.

[Usul_Princess]

I agree with Zekumi on the first page about making the current galactic torrey as the base for a brand new one.
It would seem like a merge between needing to get the old artwork off the site, yet still having an appreciation for what the species looked liked before.

And yes, I don't remember one single poll where people have voted 'old'. Even when the changes are so miniscule that you can't tell a difference on first or second glance. (like a base color tint). They just vote 'new' because it's new, but whine about it in the comments section on the main page.

I absolutely hate the new one mainly because of what everyone said on the first page: It looks like a low budget, anti-subeta, after school special cartoon. All it's missing is the infamous backwards hat (with the fringe sticking out of course.) It looks absolutely nothing like the original, and I do like those redraws where they try to retain as much old art as humanly possible. You can't please everyone, but that shows genuine effort that you tried to appeal to both sides. I liked the old torrey slant pose. I can't get over the fact that it's so stiff. Like it's being measured for height at a doctors office. The muzzle is microscopic, and the legs are just plain awful. I can't stand how they're shaped.

I do wish I could contribute something else likeable about the new one. But I even liked how this species seemed to be the only one with green eyes.

[Keshi~]

Oh, GOD. It's - someone's chibi furry. How did this thing get approved? The eye is bigger than its arm 0_o The tail is HUGE. Why? It's not a squirrel, is it? I wish that the Torrey took after a fox more - short limbs, elegant head - maybe split the huge tail into two tails, as to please the kitsune-lovers? If the Torrey looked more like a fox, it would instantly become very popular, and less something to be forgotten like the Terracoon. Please change the eyes back to green! Green eyes are lovey! And, why does every fucking pet have to have an emo fringe?!? If you can't give a pet personality without adding an emo fringe, then you fail as an artist.

And of course if anyone dares to voice their dislike, they are shouted down by the buttkissers going "If you don't like it, make your own site! Staff are God!" Sure some people are being rather rude, but they are the users - you can't expect them to give you critiques in a professional way.

There was definitely no reason for such a post like this.
I'm sorry but what gives you the right to say that Jag fails at an artist just because this pet has a fringe?
Are you even an artist yourself?

"To be honest, she very rarely HAS to, in my opinion. I am constantly in awe of her artwork, the personality she puts into her pets, her friendly and caring attitude towards drawing, and god damn it, I can't even tell you how amazing this girl is. If you could only /see/ how amazing she is with the other artists, helping us with our drawings, not just giving a redline and saying 'you did this wrong' - but explaining where we've gone wrong, and what she's done to fix it, and giving us lessons on the basic concepts of art. She isn't just an artist, she's a mentor to us all, and I don't think subeta would be what it is without her."

"Jag does NOT fail. Jag is a fucking hero, to me. "

I think Rah pretty much summed up how I feel about this.

[firost-the-dragon]

i like the changes that goldenchaos made. nice relineing. i'd consider voting for it with that!

but the way the artist made it, i cant choose either. the snout (as others said) is too rat-like. i saw rats today at a pet store, i should know. in fact, the thinness makes it look like a rat altogether, just more fluffy, and the tail isnt hideous, and it has wings. just show its ribs and throw it into the street, why don't cha?! but the eyes... capture me. and the wings should be a little higher. and the body should be lower.

[Elzaim]

I know I'm a little late to this.... but... *sigh*

When I saw the revamp when I logged into subeta today, I was absolutely appalled. I mean, I've never been a big fan of the torrey in general, but I DO own a galactic one, which I love dearly, because of the fact that it was drawn so well and is a perfect mix of old and new. It's adorable! This 'revamp' is absolutely horrid. I'm quite frankly amazed that this was put through.

The whole feel of the original pet has been completely lost, it's so stiff and uncomfortable looking, and as so many have pointed out, it's terrifying. It's like they took a chibi and spliced it on an emaciated DR. SEUSS character. The huge head, coupled with the equally huge eyes, teeny-tiny muzzle and super-small neck and skinny human-like body is just way too much. It doesn't look like a subeta pet at all and more like a badly-drawn fan portrait that was made to look like a fursona.

I can't help but agree with what everyone has said so far. This pet is downright ugly and honestly scary to look at; and if the re-vamp goes through then it looks like I'll have to be getting rid of my precious Aysuru - because I can't stand to see her like this revamp. That would be simply horrifying.

Sorry if this was a bit harsh, but after having several of my most loved pets butcherd I'm just way too tired about all this stupid crap to even care anymore. I don't know why I even play anymore. *Wonders which of her pets will be next on the chopping block*