Chai and Dragon revamp (+ staff discussion)

[Aqua]

I agree that it might be nice to have multiple artists doing the different dragons rather than just Chim drawing them all (for further differentiation), but one problem with that may be that a lot of the pet artists already have a lot of species to draw.. That plus some artists are better at drawing certain things than others (I like reptiles and bipeds, Rah likes cute things and draws a lot of quadrupeds). I also personally wish that at least one species were given a radical revamp though, just because the dragarth, magnus and dragon look so similar. >_> I'll admit that the only dragon species I'd own right now is the endeavor, but that's because I prefer less muscular and slimmer body types.

I do think that Chim is trying to do a good job, but she's been stressed over everything that has been going on.

[adi_gallia]

one problem with that may be that a lot of the pet artists already have a lot of species to draw..

Well why did they 'let go' so many artists then? They should have worked with the talent they already had before having quite a mass firing. I think NyauNyau should have been kept on (her Reborn drawings on here are just great). I don't know if she could have taken on the load of a pet and the normal quota, but I think her art is up to scratch.

I don't know of any of Sooki or the Ladron persons art, but I'm sure it can't have been too bad.

[Jessi]

I agree that it might be nice to have multiple artists doing the different dragons rather than just Chim drawing them all (for further differentiation), but one problem with that may be that a lot of the pet artists already have a lot of species to draw..

Except FMD, who would LIKE to have other species to draw, but always seems to get skipped over. She only has ONE. I'm not saying this because I think Chimera's attitude has been bad, but just because you can't be expected to be art director AND draw 10 different species at the same time and keep your sanity. Not to mention that everything is coming out looking the same.

[adi_gallia]

Except FMD, who would LIKE to have other species to draw, but always seems to get skipped over. She only has ONE. I'm not saying this because I think Chimera's attitude has been bad, but just because you can't be expected to be art director AND draw 10 different species at the same time and keep your sanity. Not to mention that everything is coming out looking the same.

Jessi is right, FMD should totally have another species, she MADE the Escalade, before it was a shunned species, now it's one of the top species on Subeta, possibly because she only has one species and that means she puts 100% effort, or that FMD is just a really good artist, I think it's a bit of both. I wonder what Lindsey could do with the Malticorn or the Tigrean, to me that's what I can envision her drawing, but of course FMD would know what she could draw best.

I agree with the second part too, how can Chimaera be expected to cope with 10 or more species, yet FMD isn't even allowed to have two.

[Cranberry]

I've read this entire thread (and the split one) and this is my first comment on the matter. I just want to say three things:

1. I don't care how Keith spends the Subeta money, or how much of it he keeps, as long as the site doesn't suck.

2. I would love to see a FMD-drawn tigrean.

3. A good leader is liked, or at least respected, by most of the people she commands. A good leader also knows how to delegate -- she doesn't feel the need to micromanage and/or take on more than she can handle. If a leader fails at both these things, that's a problem.

[shaelyn76]

" All the stickler staff were fired, it seems.



Not all, just most. Its just that some staff apparently don't feel the need to consult anyone else anymore to see if what they're doing is really what everyone else wants.
...the users 'two cents' apparently aren't worth enough anymore, as it becomes apparent when other staff members don't even see these things before they happen, and then aren't polled to boot.

Its a sad day when Subeta starts to act like other sites in their lack of attention to the user base. "

This was posted by Nataku on aboard that (surprise, surprise!) got locked. Nataku is lsited as a UA and is also now showing as frozen. Makes you wonder why huh? The post was followed by this load of hogwash:

"Of course the staff still listen to the users. Staff ARE users. And all users have an equal, very real chance of becoming staff. Anyone who spends five minutes in the IRC knows that. Just because you don\'t see as many polls as, say, a year ago doesn\'t mean we don\'t listen. We read everyone comments, we get IM suggestions, IRC suggestions, we read the suggestion board... polls is one small area.

And polls are biased because some users glitch them to vote multiple times, some in the past have made multiple accounts to vote more than one time, you name it, it\'s been done.

Some pet revamps ARE necessary. Some item revamps ARE necessary. There\'s a difference between \"not listening to users\" and \"not involving users in every aspect of the site\". Subeta isn\'t an oligarchy. That doesn\'t mean we don\'t listen to everything the users say.

If you don\'t understand why a staff member does something, ask them. Don\'t spread mass rumors and make rash judgements. Some of you seem to forget staff are humans. What a shame.

We aren\'t \"marketing\". We\'re doing what\'s best in the long run for the site. You can still give your input without polls. Like I said, polls are a very small part of the site.

Nataku, really, I love you, and you know I do... but you really don\'t spend as much time in the art department as I do, and I CONSTANTLY see \"The users want ___, get going guys!\" or something similar.

Please, guys, rash judgements aren\'t helpful to anyone or anything. We give you AMPLE opportunity to contact us. Before claiming we don\'t, make use of it.

As this board is turning into a \"ZOMG THE STAFF SUCK! MARKETING! CENSORSHIP!\" smear campaign, I will now be locking it. If you want to make suggestions about the site, do so in AIM, the suggestions board, IRC, the forums... polls are a tiny part of the site. Please don\'t act like we\'re taking away your freedom when all we\'re doing is lessening the use of a biased system. When I see that the majority here can discuss this without rash judgements and jumping to conclusions, I will unlock. For now, however, all you\'re accomplishing is blind mud-slinging, and that hurts everyone, staff and user." posted by XPrimalEyesX

I call it hogwash because I genuinely feel that some of the staff are not willing to listen to the user anymore. That and the whole "people rig the polls so they can vote more than once" pile of crap. Why would anyone bother? I mean really...I hate the new dragon and I wouldn't waste my time figuring out how to rig the poll(if there had been one) to try and make my opinion override all others and I don't see any other true user on Subeta doing that either. (I say true user in the sense of someone who plays the site, enjoys the site and wants to be an active part of the site...not somebody who signs up for the express purpose of causing trouble). As for the constant pointing out about the IRC as a valid place to get user feedback, I feel that is crap too. How many users on Subeta actually frequent the IRC? How many of them feel comfortable posting there anything not super happy supportive. I feel that since IRC is not an accessible place on the actual Subeta site it should not be used in any way to gauge user feelings/opinions. If it isn't on Subeta.org than it should have no relevance to how things are done on Subeta.org. That is like a staff member saying that they use the forums here to get accurate feedback about Subeta and therefore they don't need polls anymore. I really want to just bite someone right now

[EofS]

And somebody <b>still</b> needs to look up the definition of oligarchy.

It's laughable enough that (twice now) they're claiming "Subeta isn't an oligarchy" (which it is). But the fact that they apparently think oligarchy means democracy is just... surely they <i>live</i> in a democratic country. How can anyone over the age of about 12 in any western nation not know that "every single person influences how things are done" = democracy. Not oligarchy. Which is very nearly the opposite. And what Subeta is.

[AngharadTy]

What does "marketing" mean, in that context?

I don't go on the IRC--I don't even have a client, and it's not really accessible--and I definitely don't feel like I'd ever be on staff. I applied, and it's not posturing when I say I'd have been good at the job, but I didn't hear a single word. *shrugs* And the job that really needs to be filled right now is having someone with a level head around, not to make decisions, but to calm people down, offer words of advice and guidance. Basically, they need a good staff manager, kind of a counselor. (Well, and better rules of conduct for staff members.) It's clear they don't have one. But would they ever pick someone from the random population of Subeta to fill that spot? I really don't think they would.

I do think that they would display favoritism. I think that some staff only got where they are because of popularity. Not capability.

[Bacon]

I was on Wikipedia, and Subeta seems more like a Timocracy.

[Aqua]

Oi and Mythica aren't artists anymore. *sad* D:

[Sarivonne]

Oi and Mythica aren't artists anymore. *sad* D:

WHAT!? NO.

Ugh, this is getting ridiculous! Mythica has been staff since the dawn of time!

[Aqua]

I don't think she was fired though, she quit. Dunno about Oi, but I know that her computer crashed and she lost all her drawing programs. :/

[Sunwolf]

So she was fired for it? But a computer crash wasn't her fault

I noticed that Nataku was frozen too. This is getting scary . . .

[Sarivonne]

Staff is getting smaller and smaller...

I'll miss Mythica a lot. I loved her unique style. I never spoke to her, but I could tell she was very sweet, same with Sooki. I get a good vibe off them (unlike another staffer..)

Nataku...that makes me so sad. When my friend's account was deleted, NO ONE helped her EXCEPT nataku and she waited a week. I will really miss Nataku.

Subeta has a lot of work to do. The art work load will increase, and from the way old staff speaks, the only way you can get on staff is if you play favorites with mods. I know this is true, and I'm not going to say which staff mod it is, because they just really annoy me. *sighs*

I'm starting to really dislike subeta. I've been playing less and less. I doubt Subeta will care if one person leaves though. They still have thousands of people that it will never lose it's popularity.

[Kamil]

I don't think she was fired though, she quit. Dunno about Oi, but I know that her computer crashed and she lost all her drawing programs. :/

So she was fired for it? But a computer crash wasn't her fault

0__o Where in there did Aqua say she was fired for it? If you're a computer artist and you lose all of your drawing programs . . . seems to me you'd have to resign until you get new software and a new computer sorted out.

Let's try and keep the discussion to legitimate complaints - we don't need to add rumormongering fuel to the fire, please.