a second protest against checkers' behaviour

Post by **dandelions** » 25 Jun 2007 05:27 pm

I'm not doing an IP ban, because that isn't fair to Adi. For what it's worth, additionally, I can't do a month-long ban; it'll expire when I'm not here. Just pointing that out. I know Ty can ban people too, but it's not sensible to schedule a ban expiring when one of us won't be here for certain.

I would also like to say at this point that as far as I am aware, Huggles has sworn in a PM to Checkers, but it was about adopting a Subeta pet (I believe the exact quote was "hell the fuck no") and <i>not</i> "don't you fucking reply". My PM exchanges with him have been largely civil, if a little bewildering - entire PMs consisting of nothing but "o_O; why?" (yes, that's verbatim) or petty little arguments about things I have said in public- and not even just things I've said to him, things I've said to other members who are breaking the rules. I don't think I need checkers to tell me how to do my job properly.

Website · Post by **Kamil** » 25 Jun 2007 07:12 pm

For the record, I don't believe I've sworn at him in a PM either - although most of our PM exchanges have been . . . unfruitful, at least from my point of view.

If Jazzy will be gone in a month's time, perhaps a six weeks ban followed by a four week probation might work?

And yes, if he tries sockpuppetry to get around/punish us for the ban, then we'd obviously need to look at a permanent ban more closely.

Also, for the record? Adi, I think you've come around from a somewhat shaky start to become a good solid member of the community. The only complaint I ever have of your behavior is when you occasionally quarrel with Checkers over something in a thread, but then he invariably starts the fights. You've been much better about not replying to his provocations lately though, and I, for one, appreciate it.

Website · Post by **AngharadTy** » 25 Jun 2007 07:25 pm

In a month, I ought to be around. (The only problem is that I have no concept of time, but I can write a note on my calendar.)

Illuen · Post by **Illuen** » 25 Jun 2007 07:59 pm

Just a suggestion; what about two months? It is long enough time to be a serious reprimand, and then, when he returns, we can discuss where to go from there. Personally, I don't know, I feel that 1 month is too lenient, and it works well if Jassy isn't going to be here.

daisybell · Post by **daisybell** » 25 Jun 2007 08:04 pm

I agree with Will: to me two months sounds like a better length than one month or six weeks.

nanabobo567 · Post by **nanabobo567** » 25 Jun 2007 08:08 pm

Well, I feel after having seen all the evidence throughout this thread he should be banned for a short term, but the question is, will that do any good?
This is not real-life, no one is going to be annoyed or anything that he's not here. He's the only one who would be affected. Let's face it, if you were suspended from school for a week without anything else happening, would you really be very worked-up about that? It's the fact you have to complete work done during that time and the fact that people at home will be angry that makes you punished. We don't have the privilege of taking away his dessert when he's bad, all we can do is ban him, and if he already doesn't care about the people here, why should us banning him make any difference?
I'm not sure he understands what he has and hasn't done correctly, but really, if he doesn't understand, what difference will banning him make? Sadly, I see nothing we can do that will help...

Post by **Figment** » 25 Jun 2007 08:15 pm

nanabobo567 wrote: We don't have the privilege of taking away his dessert when he's bad, all we can do is ban him, and if he already doesn't care about the people here, why should us banning him make any difference?

Well, the fact that he has continued to post here even after that first thread about his behaviour indicates that he wants to be here. So banning him would be taking away something that he wants -- using your analogy, taking away his dessert -- which, even without "homework" or constant in-home disapproval (which is sort of what he gets here from us -- see babysitters) would hopefully make an impact. It would also give him a good long time to seriously reflect on whether or not he still wants to be a member of this community. Maybe it's optimistic, but I would hope that in that time he might be able to come to an understanding of what he has done wrong, that the distance might cool his anger and sense of persecution enough that he could see our reasoning. This might be hoping too much. But it is the intended effect.

*edit*
A note to Adi -- I agree with what Kamil said about initial shaky ground, but I think you've integrated really well into the community, and I now consider you on the same level as everyone else. I'm sorry that you feel that we're cliquey. I do too, sometimes, even though I am certainly a fast member of said cliques. I think it's simply an unfortunate side effect of so many of us having been around for so very long, literally since before Neocolours was a forum. We know each other very well, and many have become friends outside the forum. Unfortunately, I don't know what can be done about to change that, but if anyone wants to discuss it more we can make another topic. At the very least, awareness of how different members feel about the community is a useful thing.

Goldenchaos · Post by **Goldenchaos** » 25 Jun 2007 08:32 pm

I'll say my piece, and I will keep it short..ish. What checkers did is something that was uncalled for and also, none of his business. It wasn't even partially his business. It' pissed me off when I read what he sent , and the gall to even post "She doesn't know, but thats okay" or some such? Okay, no. You don't do that. You don't do that for ANYTHING, unless the person in question says it's fine...really.

Post by **Figment** » 25 Jun 2007 08:53 pm

Sorry for posting again so soon, but I wanted to ask this. In regards to Jazzy's poll, I think it's important to specify what exactly "probation" means. Because, as far as I'm concerned, checkers has been on a sort of probation, if perhaps unofficially. If the poll swings in that direction I would really love to know what exactly that would imply, as I honestly can't think of any more probationary action we could take that we haven't already.

daisybell · Post by **daisybell** » 25 Jun 2007 08:59 pm

Figment wrote:Sorry for posting again so soon, but I wanted to ask this. In regards to Jazzy's poll, I think it's important to specify what exactly "probation" means. Because, as far as I'm concerned, checkers has been on a sort of probation, if perhaps unofficially. If the poll swings in that direction I would really love to know what exactly that would imply, as I honestly can't think of any more probationary action we could take that we haven't already.

Agreed- he has been watched and told not to do things, and probation seems to be not much more than the warnings he has had already and failed to respond to. Also, I don't think that the possibility that he avoids a ban is a reason not to use it as a punishment. If he did create other accounts, then further action would be needed, but we don't know that he will.

Iggy · Post by **Iggy** » 25 Jun 2007 09:00 pm

Figment wrote:Sorry for posting again so soon, but I wanted to ask this. In regards to Jazzy's poll, I think it's important to specify what exactly "probation" means. Because, as far as I'm concerned, checkers has been on a sort of probation, if perhaps unofficially. If the poll swings in that direction I would really love to know what exactly that would imply, as I honestly can't think of any more probationary action we could take that we haven't already.

I personally than it should go with post deletion when it's rude, and considering banning if he goes overboard.

Illuen · Post by **Illuen** » 25 Jun 2007 09:01 pm

Iggy wrote:
Figment wrote:Sorry for posting again so soon, but I wanted to ask this. In regards to Jazzy's poll, I think it's important to specify what exactly "probation" means. Because, as far as I'm concerned, checkers has been on a sort of probation, if perhaps unofficially. If the poll swings in that direction I would really love to know what exactly that would imply, as I honestly can't think of any more probationary action we could take that we haven't already.
I personally than it should go with post deletion when it's rude, and considering banning if he goes overboard.

Isn't that what has been going on now, though? It doesn't seem to of made a lick of difference, from what I've seen. I think that, as we stand now, nothing will make a difference except for something serious, such as a ban.

Post by **Figment** » 25 Jun 2007 09:07 pm

Well, it's rare, if ever, that we've actually deleted checkers' posts -- I've never done it, though I have threatened at least once. If -- or, possibly, when, if we assume that checkers will be on probation after the expiration of a ban -- probation is implimented, we might consider adding that to our definition of it, though I personally really hate actually deleting posts unless asked or required. It depends so much on personal discretion; it's very difficult to try to decide what is worthy of deletion and what is not. Very totalitarian and scary. If we do impliment probation, I would ask that we have a very clearly defined set of guidelines detailing exactly what it would mean.

This is, perhaps, something better left for later, and might be something for the moderators to put together and then the community to evaluate and, um, ratify, I guess. But I do think it should be considered at some point.

checkers · Post by **checkers** » 25 Jun 2007 09:28 pm

From reading the last posts, on discussion of banning and that lot. I've come across posts saying banning 'him' wont do anything, but seriously around this time now banning me will do something as many events such as, Harry Potter finalÃ© book, Harry Potter movie, Simpsons movie and a lot of things that will appear in July, that I will see/read/do and I would have liked to share experiences and discuss thoughts about _ _ _, but not being able to do that will make me regret my behaviour.

I think one month or two month ban would be hard, as I talk a lot on this site and it'll be something I'd find hard not doing. x.x When being banned are you allowed to view the forums ect; just not post? ^_^; or full No-contact with the site until the ban time runs out.

I also have come by some posts saying that I don't know what I've done wrong, which I do know what I've done wrong. I sometimes back-seat mod, but sometimes I don't even realise I do it. When I argue, most of the time it's beacuse I am provoked, from the listed ones Ty provoked me, Cranberry provoked me. But they didn't mean to do it, at least that's what I don't think.

Personally, if an official Probation was made, I'm sure my behaviour would improve some what, but a ban might work to but then I wouldn't exactly be working on getting better would I? I'd just be stopped from doing all them things and working on them, regretting it as I can't talk and then coming back, either filled with rage or regret. xD I wouldn't know how I'd react to bans from a site. Like when I was suspended for a day on Neopets, I wasn't angry I was quiet and sad. ;-;

So far, I think formal apologise are owed to Ty, NyauNyau and Bonecrivan. :/ As they're the 3 people I think I've been rude to most, (NyauNyau after seeing her current reaction, as last time I didn't get one that was explosive :s) So sorry to them 3. Ty and I have had a few fights, but the most recent one was a really stupid one over a commar.

I'll be watching this topic to see what my punishment/the conclusion is.

Edit: Oh damnit, this topic had to start around when the first ever WW I was going to play in was starting ;-; aw nuts. I'd probably've be first to graveyard.

Cheese · Post by **Cheese** » 25 Jun 2007 09:59 pm

Considering the democracy of this forum, it's a bit...I don't know...not totalitarian, not fascist but...harsh.

On any other forum people would be banned instantly as soon as they do something wrong, but it would be something a lot more significant than this. This is mildly annoying but because we're such a small and tightly-knit forum then everything seems much more amplified...

It also strikes me that the whole acievements forum would pass as nothing more than a spam forum anywhere else but this.

I don't know, I'm more of an iron-fist type of guy and I would have banned him as soon as he did anything to bother me.

a second protest against checkers' behaviour

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